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Discussion: Sam and Dean's Fate!
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Nur-Loida |
Sam and Dean's Fate!
May 16 2009, 12:18 PM EDT
Now that the finale is over and we have to live through a hot and long summer hiatus, lets occupy ourselves shall we! :DWe now know what the angels agenda was the whole time (something I suspected all along), we know the YED's agenda and Lilith's and Ruby's (though they were all doing it their way). We know that Dean's fate is to kill Lucifer. My question is what is Sam's fate, is he still destined to be the leader of the demons? Does he still have demon powers, is he still a major player in the apocalypse, or is he going to be a mere side kick to Dean and Castiel? Who do you think they'll choose to play Lucifer (if they have him corporeal)? So many burning questions and so many theories waiting to be heard. So why not occupy ourselves with that till the next season! :D Lets discuss and share and just have fun. Lets decide what we think Sam and Dean's fate will be for season 5! Do you find this valuable?
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TheNiteHawke |
1. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate!
May 16 2009, 12:27 PM EDT
At least we'll have plenty to discuss over the summer.
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Lifemage |
2. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate!
May 16 2009, 2:20 PM EDT
In all honesty, when the finale was showing scenes from 1972, it was told that Lilith and a child would be needed. Sam was to be some kind of leader of the demons. What if Lucifer, much like all the other demons, has to inhabit a body? What if those children, like Sam, were created for that purpose alone? Does anyone else think it's possible that Lucifer will come up and enter Sam's body, possessing him? I don't think Sam's destiny on the show is to be a mere sidekick. Even if Sam isn't possessed by Lucifer, perhaps one of the other kids that drank the demons blood will be. Those are just my questions and answers lol I may be completely off base lol
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Nur-Loida |
3. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate!
May 16 2009, 4:37 PM EDT
I've been hearing that theory a lot since the season finale, that Lucifer will inhabit Sam. I think it might happen, but I don't think it'll happen as fast as we might think, I think there will have to be steps before Lucifer can possess anyone. Since Lucifer is supposed to be a fallen angel maybe he's like other angels, maybe he needs a praying believing man as a vessle (like with Jimmy). Now I'm thinking if Sam's destiny isn't over, if he is still supposed to be leader of the demons, then maybe by Sam accepting this fate Lucifer will be able to possess him. It would be cool to see if there are anymore psychics still alive! I would love to see that, and see what they were doing the whole time the apocalypse was threatening earth :)
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XxLunaxX |
4. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate!
May 16 2009, 8:38 PM EDT
i don't have any theories yet, but i'm so concerned on how there going to play the demon blood thing out. when they tried to Detox sammy he almost died... i do think that at one point, Dean is going to start feeling bad like he pulled sam in to all of this, if he didn't pull Sam out of school to go after John, Sam would have his own law firm and a wife, so i think at one point dean is going to feel like it's his fault, but sam's going to set him straight on that either sam or Castiel in the end i am pretty sure that sam and dean will re connect there brotherly bond, and have apple pie and every thing.... the burgers with extra onions and all that.. but i dont know is in it's theme "carry on my way ward son" every year hey play that song, and when they edit the song they always leave in "lay your weary head to rest, don't you cry no more" to many thoughts i need to organize my brain out.. srry my typing is so confusing lol Do you find this valuable? |
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TheNiteHawke |
5. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate!
May 16 2009, 9:00 PM EDT
I think the effect of detox was all in Sam's head - just as him getting stronger because he drank the blood was in his head (according to Ruby).Do you find this valuable? |
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Lifemage |
6. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate!
May 17 2009, 11:17 AM EDT
I think Dean might think about it being his fault, but Sam would remind him of the brother who wasn't and how that turned out. There's no fault there, only the best for both of them. I don't Sam would have made it to finish school and with his destiny, he would have been pulled in from another angle without the support he has.They'll reconnect, eventually but the problem is what is going to happen now that Lucifer is coming back. The detox was definately all in Sam's head. He wouldn't have died because he has a destiny to fulfill. It would have been impossible. Sam could get it all out of his system easier now that he knows it was all in his head. Do you find this valuable? |
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Nur-Loida |
7. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate!
May 17 2009, 5:01 PM EDT
I think it'll be more of a guilt for bringing Sam back to life. I think slowly Dean is going to realize that maybe it was a mistake making that deal and resurrecting Sam. Because by doing that he helped the demons move on with their plan, after all the crossroads demon told Sam that everyone was where they were supposed to be and things were the way they were supposed to be. So I think it would be more of a guilt over that then actually bringing Sam into the hunting business. I want to know if Sam will be able to regain his powers and use them again with out the false pretenses of needing demon blood. That would be cool if Sam used his powers to fight along side Dean to get rid of Lucifer \o/ Do you find this valuable? |
ScottWootton |
8. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 17 2009, 7:20 PM EDT
| Post edited: May 17 2009, 7:22 PM EDT
Right a little rambling on from me: As we all know to kill an angel another angel must kill them. Lucifer is a fallen angel so technically still is an angel, the angels say that deans part in the apocalypse is to kill lucifer. But can he kill an angel if he is not an angel? I dunno how but i think that in time dean will become an angel. We definately know what came through the gate was an angel- fallen angel lucifer as it was represented by white light. Angels like demons have a habit of possessing a "poor bastard" for their ways. But what if lucifer needed a host with demon blood, as human blood he will doesnt like. And because sam's blood is impure from azazel, lucifer would want one of the kids he told azazel about. And the reason why there is only Sam involved from his generation is because lucifer needs the best of the best so he can possess and rule the army from hell. And thats why sam had to get stronger because maybe demon blood is sort of like the fuel to keep the powers (fire) "burning". And perhaps god is also trapped as he has "left the building", maybe dean is the one to free him from his prison. Do you find this valuable? |
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TheNiteHawke |
9. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 17 2009, 10:03 PM EDT
I've been thinking about this. Actually, I think Sam's "curse" is ended.Ruby: You didn't need the feather, Dumbo. It was inside you the whole time. Azazel gave Sam all the demon's blood he needed when he was a baby. Ruby's job was to get him to USE those powers rather than push them away and to direct him toward a specific path. Sam may have made all the wrong choices, but he did it with Ruby poking and prodding at him, telling him he was doing good. Dean's guilt will not stem from bringing his brother back to life. He went to Hell for that decision and suffered 40 years of torture, only to find that in doing so he started the Apocalypse. And, yet, he hasn't once said "I should never have brought Sam back." His guilt will stem from having pushed Sam away. He will blame himself for Sam being tricked into releasing Lucifer. As to Dean becoming an angel, I don't think so. The angels said only the one who began the Apocalypse could STOP Lucifer and end it. They didn't say Dean would KILL Lucifer, The boys just assume that's what is meant. I think Lucifer will possess SOMEONE. I don't think it will be SAM. As far as Lucifer is concerned, Sam has already served his purpose. His power was spent killing Lilith and releasing Lucifer. He's no longer "special". I believe Scott's right about God being "trapped" in some way. However, He's GOD and I don't think he'd be trapped unless He allowed it to happen. Mankind is forever being tested. We have free will, given to us by God, and we frequently choose to exercise our will instead of obeying His. Do you find this valuable? |
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TheNiteHawke |
10. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 17 2009, 10:15 PM EDT
Angels were also given free will as proven by Anna. They can choose to "fall" and live a mortal life, though not without some danger. Being closer to God, they would have more proof of God's existence, needing less "faith".Lucifer was also an angel who exercised his own free will. So were those who followed him. The Apocalypse is supposed to serve a purpose: To end the suffering of the righteous, eliminate evil from the world and bring the Kingdom of God to Earth. What if Man is not the only one of God's creations being "sorted"? What if God knew some of the angels were not loyal and faithful and chose to allow himself to be "trapped" so that those angels who were quietly staging an uprising would reveal themselves? There are certainly enough angles left to this story for The Kripke to make the last season the best of all of them! Do you find this valuable? |
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XxLunaxX |
11. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 18 2009, 2:01 AM EDT
"yeah there seems to be something up the the angels boss! i mean uriel, then Zach somethings up. and it would be the biggest twist in my mind if Lucifer possessed Dean. no one is really expecting it because he's teamed up with the angels. but i don't know Do you find this valuable? |
dutchdeanfan |
12. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 18 2009, 6:52 AM EDT
(okay i'm not further than the episode about Castiel disappearing but still like to give a vision :-) )Lucifer is already a fallen angel, right...so maybe he doesn't need to possess anyone. Like Anna does not possesses any one. But still has powers cuz she found her grace... Sam already had powers before drinking Ruby's blood. One time when he saw Dean being shot, he moved a closet from the door. So maybe Sam just needs to get himself together and uses the powers inside him. The powers YED gave him. But maybe Sam already had powers. Not everybody with powers has got it from a demon. Some people are just special. maybe Sam was already a special kid and YED choose him and gave him blood to make him more powerfull or to controll him better. Sam was picked for a reason. Sam and Dean are brothers for a reason. The reason is coming in the fifth part. Pieces are falling together. But one thing will never change. They are brothers. They can't survive without each other. They keep dying for each other, they keep saving each other, they keep fighting, they keep bringing each other back. Dean tried everything to save Sam. Sam tried everything to save Dean. The most powerfull thing they got is their blood. Family above anything. Sam will find a way to help Dean, he won't be just a help or whatever. Sams part will be as important as Deans part. In the beginning, we thought it was all about Sam...Sam had the demon blood, Sam had a destiny, Sam was the psychic, Dean was just the brother that was helping him. Yeah right, wrong we were. But now, we're wrong again. First two seasons were about Sam, seaons 3 & 4 were about Dean, 5th one is about both of them... Do you find this valuable? |
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ScottWootton |
13. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 18 2009, 4:29 PM EDT
I understand what your saying about dean stopping lucifer perhaps even he has to trap him like the archangel michael trapped him in the first place. But for lucifer to die would theoretically need an angel to do so. But also with sam being a vessel for lucifer, lucifer refused to bow down to humans. Why would he posses a full blooded human. As we dont know there could be a full blooded demon in coporeal form but as to that we dont know. But Sam's body is the closest thing to that.To be honest were all assuming trying to figure what all this means, there are clues to this but to what kripke uses these "clues" is a different story. Do you find this valuable? |
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Lifemage |
14. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 19 2009, 6:53 AM EDT
Suspense, isn't it great!:) Dutchdeanfan, the reason most assume Lucifer will need a body is because all the angels had to have a body for a human to see them without causing blindness. Only certain few people could see or hear them without the aid of a human body. Anna said in one of the episodes that she called in a favour in order to keep the body she had, so she does possess the body. Humans couldn't really look upon an angel any other way. Perhaps Lucifer isn't going to possess any body, perhaps that's what makes it an Apacalypse. Perhaps he had a human body at one time and will assume that form. We just don't know. I definately think you're right about the first two seasons being about Sam and the last two we've watched were mostly about Dean, so this fifth season should be about the both of them.NiteHawk, perhaps you're right about the 'Not killing Lucifer' bit. Sam and Dean have trapped many demons, sending them back to hell. Perhaps they find a way to imprison Lucifer again instead of killing him, thus STOPPING the Apacalypse, like you and Scott have said. Nothing is written in stone so to speak. Many different angles here have to be explored. It's all a summation at the moment. One plus one might not equal two when dealing with demons and angels:) Just as with Chuck, what is written by Chuck has to happen, it can't be changed. He wrote about this and it's happened. You see him trying to have the best 'last day' in the season finale. He knew it was going to happen, and no matter if Cass helped or not, it didn't change the outcome. Dean still didn't make it to Sam in time to stop him. Just like whenever Dean tried to change what they did after reading what Chuck wrote, he couldn't change it. Do you find this valuable? |
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Lifemage |
15. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 19 2009, 6:56 AM EDT
The prophets from biblical times wrote about this Apacolypse, and so it shall come to pass. I don't think God is trapped at all. I think He has 'left the building' so to speak, but He could do whatever He wanted. I think what God wants right now is a cleansing, as it was written and is being written again. Maybe the point wasn't to stop it from happening, but to defeat Lucifer and all the angels and demons that follow him. We shall see:D
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dutchdeanfan |
16. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 19 2009, 10:35 AM EDT
chuck, you're right Lifemage, i forgot the title of that episode. the monster at the end of the book...still haven't seen the last two episodes of season 4 yet, so it's hard to discuss about what's going to happen. God had a cleansing before (in the bible) and promised that wouldn't happen again. But you have a point in defeating Lucifers and all the angels and demons that follow him. It comes up to sorting out good and evil. (not in human level but higher level) Everything revolves around that. Dean always thought, monsters are evil so they must die. Later he learns that evil can do good and good can do evil. Maybe now every one will show his true colours... Do you find this valuable? |
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Nur-Loida |
17. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 19 2009, 11:52 AM EDT
ScottWootton, you have a good point about the death of Lucifer, since he is portrayed as a fallen angel then maybe only angels can kill him. But I can't help but think that maybe once a fallen angel, he's not really an angel anymore, but more of what Anna was, she had special powers (could hear other angels), sort of the way Jimmy was before he was possessed by Castiel. So since Lucifer fell maybe he'll rise as a human (like Anna). Or maybe he'll rise as a normal demon who needs to possess someone, but he wants to possess someone special so he can get some of his powers starting. Maybe that vessel is Sam or maybe it's some one else. I'm thinking if he comes out an angel then he can only possess a praying man, but one that prays to Lucifer rather than god and one that believes in Lucifer rather than God and the angels. But if he is a mere demon who needs to regain his powers than he needs to possess someone with some sort of power, like Sam.
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ScottWootton |
18. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 19 2009, 1:50 PM EDT
i can see where your coming from, but with anna she was born through parents. With sam his blood is impure so lucifer would theoretically go for the more impure host. And he is sorta the best of the best really, i mean he's the only known (to us) one of azazel's special children. And i was also reading somewere that lucifer apparently wouldnt be able to possess the boys as they have protection tattoos. Now the tattoos protect against demonic possession not known yet whether it is against holy possession. But as lucifer has that angel background to him then maybe the tattoos have no effect on him. And to be honest i reckon that kripke & co probably look at what we write lol, because they are all good ideas :D Do you find this valuable? |
WiddleShamrock |
19. RE: Sam and Dean's Fate! and more.
May 19 2009, 5:15 PM EDT
Oh my !!!Some of you have shared what was already going around in my head. I wondered too if Luciifer would enter Sam. While the angels look for pure praying people who asked for it, demons look for weakness and enter without asking, so in my mind it is feasible that Lucifer could possess Sam. I don't think Sam would be willing now, as he seemed so sorry when he realised what part he had played and how he allowed Ruby to fool him. But all that would give alot of internal conflict. I think Season five will be about Sam and Dean rebuilding their relationship. If the demon blood was unnecesssary, I wonder what the withdrawals were all about. Maybe they will find a way around that. Maybe Angelic intervention is what is needed ??? Also, with Lucifer, as 'head honcho' of hell, he is the most powerful, and wouldn't need Sam's powers would he? I would like to see the angel's role more defined. One minute they are 'robots' doing as ordered, next they are showing free will. So which is it? I think the angels need sorting out. Those who see Lucifer as their brother still need to be exposed. My understanding from Season 2 All Hell Breaks loose is that Sam is the last of the 'special kids' that YED visited. I am a sucker for a happy ending, I just hope at the end of the day, good prevails over evil and love conquers all. Do you find this valuable? |
